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 Post subject: DX9 shader supported materials...
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:22 pm 
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Specular layer for textures...be handy for ice and lots of other materials...make em shiney :) .. but selectivly shiney...

Possibly bump map also...

I'm just grasping here :)

K


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Programmierdochfix
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Specular ice and snow. Sounds interesting. But is it already applicable today? Do you have an example of an engine/game using such features for large terrains?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:42 pm 
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Unreal 2.x, Unreal 3, Quake 4, Doom 3, Half Life 2 all have spec support in there material systems.

Ogre3d has Spec support also as a material pass..

All recent games from the past year or so have had the ability to use specular channles. They have been around and usable longer then Bump and Normal mapping.

The best use I've seen for it on Terrain is a Game called Guild Wars ... it's specular on the Jade Sea areas and Shiverpeaks is superb, all the snow and ice... ...also the specular approch was used by Blizzard on there terrain for WoW...even the dirt has Specualr in WoW..

Specular would be an excellent first choice for shader/material implementation, as with a little imagination it can be used to produce many effects....from flakey metal to wet fluid surfaces...to marble. It's a very efficent and beliveble way to "mimic" a reflective surfice without the rendering overheads.

Would probably need to be a per texture thing...somehow...possibly adjustable for transparancy maybe.

Can you image how cool a Crystal based world made with PnP would be....A forest of sharp huge crystal cutting up into the sky...and as you travel between them..they shimmer as if made of glass and the ground you walk on has a sense of depth to it due to the specular effect as if made of solid quartz...Oooooo gives me goose pipples...

K


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Programmierdochfix
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I thought a while about that. It seems as if I have never realized terrain with specular properties in any game. :oops:

I think it is a good idea to add some material system to the program.

What do you think: would it be sufficient to apply one material setting to a texture or might it be useful to have the same texture with different sets of material properties?

Quote:
...possibly adjustable for transparancy maybe.

What do you mean with this?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:55 am 
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If you are thinking of a material system to intergrate with the current "splattering" system I would probably recomend a system where you would have a "base" texture...a master layer that you could then add a couple of "blends" to ... Spec and Bump maybe. This would be the less distruptive option to the current texture painting pipline. And doing it this way would also mean it's a totally optional setting for the user...as you could still just simply select a "base" texture to paint with and add the exsisting detail map...or you could add spec layers etc.

It would mean that after you choose your base texture to paint with...That texture slot would have additional options where you could assign a spec blend map or bump etc and when you painted with the selected material it would include the blends. Your now painting with material blends rather then just a single texture but it would still conform to the current splatter painting methods...the power of this if possible... would be quite simply insane....

Doing it this way I assume would be easier to be able to formulate some form of export, as the textures would be associated with a base and would be able to be flagged to be whatever you need them to be. I'm probably not explaining this well...I'm no coder :)

As far as what I mean by transparancy of these blends...basically how strong they show ... how "shiney or dull" something is. How bumpy a layer is etc ..a simple slider 0-100% based on the contrast of the texture being used or something, 0% no effect...100% full ....

K


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:20 am 
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Programmierdochfix
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Usually for a base texture there is exaclty one bump map for example. So I would have implemented in a way that one can assign the bump map directly inside the texture manager. And the same for specular and other parameters. Maybe you have two different sets of parameters. For example you use the same dirt texture one with specular values to make it look more wet and a second "dry" parameter setting. When you select the texture you additionally have the choice between these two parameter settings. But of course one has the possibility to net set any parameters at all, or disable the usage of the parameters for rendering if the system is too slow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:44 am 
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That sounds promising...very promising indeed :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:06 pm 
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I've put together a quick concept of how I sorta saw the UI and application of this....

The layers are available for independantly on a per texture bases...so texture 1 can have different setting from texture 4 etc ...

I'm not sure how possible all this is, but would be an incredible feature...be interesting also if you had the ability to save Materials you had made to some form or Pre-Set library for later use....with a project etc

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:14 pm 
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is that something that could be exported with the terrain(s), or just something you want to have in the editor only?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:58 pm 
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I don't see why it can't be part of the export pipe...

Spec and Bump systems of all current engines are based on texture information...and all this is, is adding that texture info and telling the editor/engine how to blend it with it's master texture to produce the required effect.

Granted the way engines process the information can be different...so a solution to make PnP produce the desired effect may not be the same solution that Quake or Half life or JoeBlogs engine does uses...but all the engines needs are the textures and blending information exported to a folder or file etc that can be referanced by the engine to then make the calles required to produce it's version of Spec or Bump based on how it was painted in PnP....

Granted within PnP, spec and bump may only be an in-editor representation of the final desired effect...as engines may render the systems differently...however the texture information will be there. If the engine or export format can support the splatter blending tech of PnP and can support Spec and Bump blending modes...then I cant see why an export option would not be possible for some formats :) .

K


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:26 am 
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Programmierdochfix
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It would be no problem to export all material properties. It is as Kaylon said only a question if the target engine supports these settings.

I will take a look at how we can add such features after the next release.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Looking forward to updates of specular and bump maps. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:25 pm 
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Programmierdochfix
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I just finished terrain rendering based on programmable shaders for the TC. That was one big step into that direction. But there are still some more steps to be done.


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